Bill Russell: 00:06 Welcome to this week in health It where We discuss news information and emerging thought with leaders from across the healthcare industry. This is episode number 54. This is a special end of the year episode. Year in Review the CIO’s episode. So this is the third of four episodes we already did the innovators. We’ve done the clinician’s. This is the CIO episode and next week we’ll do the Top 10 Video episode none of which you’ve heard yet because I kept them out of the initials initial ones so you could be surprised what the top 10 are. This podcast is brought to you by health lyrics be a market leader we help you to clarify your health I.T. plan eliminate confusion align your work experience breakthroughs visit healthlyrics.com to schedule your free consultation. My name is Bill Russell. Recovering healthcare CIO writer and adviser with the previously mentioned health lyrics and as you can tell I’m trying to talk fast because it was really hard to do this episode there are so many good clips from the CIOs that I feel like I’m cheating them by not having a you know a multi episode of just the CIOs.
Bill Russell: 01:15 But I have picked it looks like about 14 clips. It’s about 40 minutes. That’s without me talking so I’m going to keep my talking to a minimum. The only thing I want to cover to make sure that you are aware of is that we’re doing a survey we’re doing a survey the off the Health lyrics site and off the ThisWeekinhealthit.dot com site and you can find that survey at the top of the page. And it’s all about the podcasts. This is where we are asking you for feedback. What do you like. What did not like you know would you refer to a friend. You know what should we do more of what should we cut out. So we really want your feedback as we prepare. I will more than likely take a couple of weeks off in January.
Bill Russell: 02:00 We’ve been doing this for two weeks straight and I’ll take some time off in January. Re think the podcast how we’re going to do it. Get some great guests lined up and we will probably kick off in either late January or the first week of February. I haven’t really decided yet but I am here to take a little bit of time to talk to some people gather some feedback and really come back strong with with some fine tuned messaging based on your feedback. So. All right. Is there anything else I want to cover. I don’t think there is get the feedback. Just want to make sure I thank all my guests. It’s been a great year. I have learned a ton and hopefully you’re sharing this with your peers so that they can learn from these from these incredible guests that I’ve had on the show. So without further ado let’s go ahead and start getting it right into the podcast. So.
Bill Russell: 03:04 Our first our first guest is let’s see what would be the best one. We’ll start with. We’ll start with one of the elder statesmen we’ll start with Mark probst CIO for Intermountain Healthcare and he’s going to share why it’s a great time and great time to be a CIO in health care.
Mark Probst: 03:20 And I got to tell you Bill what. I’m excited. So I’m in the latter part of my career. I do have older children and I’m older because I have older children and I am so excited. I think it is such an amazing time to be involved with technology and health care and having been a CIO and whatever that role turns out to be in the long run. There’s still CIO’s will be leaders in what we do in technology I believe and I’m excited about the confluence of so many technologies right now and the potential that that has not just help healthcare but to absolutely change it improve it and probably save it for our country. And you know globally I suppose if you want to think that way and if you think about artificial intelligence and the potential that has as it gets coupled with the cloud and all the data that exists as it gets coupled with what we’re doing around interoperability as it goes mobile and with the power that we now have with the mobile devices and I see a day from a consumer perspective where Dr Google or Dr. Apple or whatever we want to call it is there.
Mark Probst: 04:32 That’s where they’re going to go for their initial primary care is going to be the device and all the knowledge that that device has. That’s going to help healthcare because don’t have enough clinicians to start with and to really help focus what they do and it will be way more real time because we’re Crud we’re all wearing monitoring devices and you know we’re learning a lot more about ourselves. You know the human body is actually becoming its own platform for computing. So I’m excited on that side we continue to look at the confluence of capabilities. I look at what we’re doing around natural language processing and voice some nuance and some of the companies that that work in that space. We have been working with Stanford around computer vision actually teaching the computer to see. So think about the triad of being able, the computer being able to see computer being able to hear and artificial intelligence.
Mark Probst: 05:31 Can we create Jarvis when we create what was in Iron Man 3 and just have the clinicians do their job and ask the computer for support and we’ll do all the documentation and all the dirty work behind which is what we should be automating. Because to me today we don’t facilitate care with technology. We facilitate creating a record we get information to clinicians it’s a little more useful to them. But we don’t facilitate what they do day to day in fact we get in their way and we hear that all the time. But again it’s confluence of so many new technologies that are at the very heel of the hockey stick. These things are going to take off. I mean I know we all know they’re going to take. I’m not telling anybody anything they don’t know. But it is so exciting. And I I think I’m going to witness in kind of the twilight of my career an absolute shift of how technology is used and helps what we’re doing in healthcare. I think that’s really really exciting and it’s great. Like I said it’s a great time to be a CIO in healthcare.
Bill Russell: 06:35 Yeah I couldn’t agree more with Mark. It is great time to be CIO in healthcare. It’s a challenging job but there are so many things coming there’s the digital revolution. There is so digital healthcare is right around the corner and you have all sorts of new tools gadgets gizmos cloud agile you name it. It’s all right around the corner. It makes our job hard but makes it exciting. There’s always something to do every day you come in. Along those lines you know some of these are very difficult so I asked another senior leader John Halamka who has appeared in every episode so far. The end of the year episode. But he gave me such a great answer to this. I thought I’d share with you and it’s about staying positive as a CIO. Here’s John Halamka.
Bill Russell: 07:21 So you maintain as people can tell you maintain an extremely positive attitude. I’m sure you’ve had many difficult meetings as many as the next CIO. How do you keep from becoming cynical. How do you keep that positive frame of frame of mind.
John Halamka: 07:39 So what’s really important for an IT leader is to have something in your life that grounds you. Right. So if I got a customer e-mails this afternoon that said I hate you. You’re horrible. I’d go out and hug the llamas right. So remember I ran a 70 acre organic farm that is a bee animal rescue for the entire Boston region. And so I have horses and cows and pigs and I’m out at 4:00 a.m. shoveling manure and I have a bad day I’m just out of the barn. Something that you can look to that is some part of the greater good keeps you grounded.
Bill Russell: 08:23 Yeah. And the the animals aren’t tweeting out negative comments about you these days I assume those
John Halamka: 08:30 They are writing anonymous editorials in the New York Times though it’s you know those llamas you got to watch em because
Bill Russell: 08:35 they’re crafty sitting over there with those neural implants connected to the Internet.
Bill Russell: 08:42 They’re great words of wisdom from John Halamka. I wish we could all own a farm but in light of not owning a farm maybe we could all stay grounded and have something outside of work that keeps us energized keeps us focused so fantastic. Words of wisdom appreciate John being on the show multiple times this year. But another person who came on the show and again a new person for me I was I’ve been introduced to a lot of new people this year is Kristen Meyers SVP for Mt. Sinai Health in New York City and she has a passion for really helping out the next generation of women and health I.T. leadership roles. And she had this advice for professional women in health I.T. know that you’re you’re an advocate for women in leadership in diversity.
Bill Russell: 09:29 We talked about this last summer on the phone. Why do you think diversity is so important to promote. And I think the following question for me on this is going to be you know what what’s some advice that you would give women in health care I.T. at this point. So why. Why do you think diversity is important and advice for women in health I.T..
Kristen Meyers: 09:51 So I think diversity is important. You know we need to have different opinions at the table in order to solve really complex problems and as you know in healthcare specifically in IT you know we’ve got a lot of complex problems to solve. I also think that you know at the leadership level we need to have representation in all of our patient population. And when you think about it 60 percent and above healthcare decisions are made by women. And so that’s why I feel pretty passionately that you know the leadership has to reflect you know our patient population and where the decisions are being made in order to engage our patients also. And you know I’m very lucky to be working in an organization where you know we have great examples of strong executive women. We had a number of them recognized recently in cranes and you know we also had the number one health system according to diversity and diversity and inclusion. And we’ve got a great diversity and inclusion program here. So again an honor to work at Mt. Sinai.
Bill Russell: 11:10 Yeah well that would have to be the case in New York City it is literally the the epicenter of a melting pot. Your patient community community very diverse and in your care community. Is there anything you add any advice you would give to him. I mean I saw I saw a post I think it was a LinkedIn posts where a health system team said just finished our strategy session are setting our strategy whatever. Great meeting and the picture had a picture all the people that were attending and I kid you not. I think it was like 14 men and two women I thought that’s it that’s problematic. But what would you do. What would you tell what’s your advice to women to get more women in that in that you know executive level you know seat at the table talking about strategy how are we going to do that?
Kristen Meyers: 12:01 Well I think you know ultimately it starts with the recruiting and the pipeline. And you know if you are an executive it doesn’t matter what gender you are and you’re receiving the same resumes over and over. The question is why and so you’ve got to go back to HR and you a look at you know the pool of resources that you’re trying to pull from. And that’s not just the gender it’s also the under represented minorities. And so I think that that’s where it stops. I would also encourage you know female leaders to engage the men in their department as allies because just having a discussion with other female leaders is great. And I think that’s you know it helps other women in the department. But ultimately we have to engage the men in this endeavor. So it’s there is you know a roomful of men. I think that you know the question would be where are the women. And I think that’s you know women leaders and men leaders need to bring in other women into the meetings even if they’re directors or senior directors just to give them that exposure give them a seat at the table and hear what their opinion is. And I think that more and more happens like that. We’ll get some progress. And I also think mentoring is huge. I know that you know sometimes it’s a challenge for women. I’ve had many many women say that they’re not being mentored by a female leader. So I really encourage mentoring at our health system. And you know we’ve got a great program here that I would encourage you know other health systems and hope that all have a mentoring program and have women to women mentoring.
Bill Russell: 14:05 be a mentor or seek a mentor. And I think that’s a great way to to end the show.
Bill Russell: 14:16 Yeah it was. It was a great great conversation great to get to know Kristen a little bit. She gives a rundown on the on the epic conference this year and it was it was really insightful in fact it was one of the most for a little while there it was one of the most listened to episodes. And I think it is still one of the top 10 episodes that the podcast in terms of listeners. So you know staying on that theme of really your career and owning your career. I had a couple of great conversations this year with Sue Schade principal at Starbridge advisors. Sue has done so many great things within the industry and it’s great to have her on the show to share her wisdom. Here’s what we were doing. Sort of a role play on health care MNA. And you know how you know how you manage through MNA. So if you are in the midst of an MNA situation which some of you are or you’re getting ready for an MNA situation the one show that Sue and I did we just focus very heavily on MNA and we just did this roleplay of two CIOs and how we would approach it and what coaching we would give to our staff and what we’ve seen play out over the years. Here’s a little excerpt from that one.
Bill Russell: 15:27 We’re bringing our teams together. What’s how do you how do you prepare your team for their first meeting with our team. So we’re going to bring our infrastructure teams together our innovation teams together our data teams gather and we’re going to have we’re going to have a common meeting. How do you sort of prepare them what’s the I don’t know how and how do you make sure that that first meeting goes well.
Sue Schade: 15:50 Well I will go back to what we’ve already talked about in terms of relationship whats the dynamic between the larger and the smaller organizations impacting people and helping them understand a message. What I would emphasize with people is that change is constant and we don’t have all the answers your communication is critical. I’ve described to you know the approach that we tell people what you know when you can tell people if you don’t know if you don’t have answers yet, you tell them you don’t and when you might and if you have information that can’t get there for whatever reason you tell them. We do know that we’ve made that decision but we can’t go public yet. I think there’s a lot that there is a belief that that lack of information that people make that’s how all the rumors start right it just goes round and round so people aren’t getting any regular corrective communication they’re gonna make stuff up. And then and then you just have to manage that. What I would also obviously with the advice of H.R. I mean talk about future work. And on the one hand you message there’s plenty of work for everybody we know that. On one hand we have to say no guarantees as to whether there will be changes or staff reduction.
Sue Schade: 17:16 You know HR tells us what to say and how to say it, what not to say. The other thing, My message to individuals because individuals get really worried at a time like this is twofold, one, open to the possibility. Who knows what changes there’s gonna be. And what new opportunities, new jobs, new skills, you know, they can learn. So be open to the possibilities, the other thing I tell people is you on your own career. So Depending what those possibilities are and those changes depending on in you like them if you don’t like them, if you want to propose you put me in this role instead every individual owns their own career.
Bill Russell: 17:56 phenomenal insight.
Bill Russell: 17:57 I really do appreciate Sue coming on the show. Another friend of mine who I got to know after he replaced Bill Spooner down at sharp is Ken Lawonn and Ken Lawonn is again you know if you’ve been doing this long enough and Ken Ken has been doing it since the punch card days you just amass an amazing amount of wisdom especially if like Ken you’re a student and you’re constantly learning and so we were talking about the the biggest changes coming on in health care. And one of the things we talked about was retailers as primary care providers and this is what Ken had to say next disrupted number five disruption in health care retailers has primary care physicians.
Bill Russell: 18:40 What would you tell your peers about this one.
Ken Lawonn: 18:42 Well my biggest challenge here is to be talking to you and to your primary care physicians about how do we continue to be relevant. You think about a pharmacy if you know many of us travel around Europe and think about what you can do at a pharmacy without a doctor’s orders. I think this is a huge potential disrupter to the traditional primary care model that we’ve grown up with where everything kind of runs through your primary care physician you know you go there for any kind of diagnosis referrals treatment. And you know people are people who are disrupting that and saying not only do I do a lot of individuals not want to go through that model but there’s a lot there’s a lot of other people who could could take up that space on the kind of you know self treatment the wellness kind of you know what I need to do and Where do I kind of go to get information just try to keep myself healthy. I just I’d say you need to be looking at how do you compete or partner because you don’t always have to do it yourself. How do you compete or partner in this space. Because if you don’t you’re going to become irrelevant as primary care provider.
Bill Russell: 19:54 Right. And the term in other industries is called disintermediation and if you allow someone to come between you and your consumer you are just asking for a world of hurt.
Bill Russell: 20:04 Yeah Ken is Ken’s an awesome guest and I really appreciate him coming on the show. And you know another another person who probably had one of the busiest years as a CIO this year is Ed marks he took on the role at the Cleveland Clinic and he even took the time took time out of his busy schedule to spend some time with us and do an episode. And I really appreciate Ed because early on in my career I just reached out to him because I was new to health care and he was one of those people as well as John Islamica and John Glasser and some others who were just so gracious with their time and give me gave me valuable insight. This is one of the things that Ed told me to do. He told me to go outside the industry and get some input from outside the industry. And so I prompted him on it and this and I had him share some of the things he shared with me early on in my CIO career. So here’s here’s Ed Marks.
Bill Russell: 21:06 This actually impacted me so I really want to share it with others so we had a conversation early on in my healthcare CIO tenure. And you said that you bring in or you take your team out and you bring in people from outside of the healthcare industry to have discussions around strategy trends and technology. Can you give us an idea of what you did why you did it and what benefit was derived by your team and the health system by interacting with organizations outside of healthcare.
Ed Marks: 21:34 Yeah of course. So I think I first learned this technique when I started to be on a couple of boards for organizations. And instead of being a bunch of healthcare CIO there is a CIO from Kellogg as CIO from Collgate, Ridleys and I remember just learning a lot from them in different perspectives. I thought wow I want to hang out with that person and not just myself, I want my team to hang out with that persin. So then we started doing that once a year I pick a different company and we would meet with those companies. I’ll give you a one example, Peir1. Peir1 is really good at data analytics they had this amazing performance and revenue. And when I asked about how they went from a penny stock to a very successful company it was all around analytics. And so we’ve met with them and talked analytics we were about to launch the last big analytics endeavor at my organization and we learned so much from them. And one thing was they watermarked All their reports whether they were online or hard copy they were watermarks from the CEO. Everyone knew that you could trust that data that came with that watermarks becuase it was part of their BI program as opposed to someone else reading a spreadsheet giving up data. You don’t know if it’s accurate or not but this was accurate and that’s what we started to do so you knew when you’ve got the report that it had our watermark on it you knew you could trust that source. So that helps with our credibility and the standardization and you know going from many different data sources to one that’s one example. So we do it all the time. We’ve got some land here as well.
Bill Russell: 23:03 Yeah that was. Thanks for sharing that with me. That was very powerful. You know that’s a recurring theme of getting inspiration from outside and outside the industry. In fact just recently in fact I think it’s December I think it’s like just a week ago or a couple of weeks ago. Providence, St. Joseph Health Announced that they’re bringing in a CIO from Microsoft and somebody with you know a couple decades of experience of Microsoft’s AI experience. And so we see this trend towards some health systems going outside the industry to look for help for new ideas for how they’re going to address this digital economy. But I think traditional CIOs the CIOs that have been in health care for a long time can can can still make the transition as long as they’re open. And so we had that conversation. Craig Richardville and I Craig was the former CEO Atrium health. I had this conversation about get gathering inspiration from other industries around innovation and this is what Craig has to share.
Bill Russell: 24:03 What industries do you look to for inspiration for innovation within health care.
Craig Richardvi: 24:11 Great question. My answer would be all. I think there’s a lot of nuggets that they gained from all industries so we look at the energy sector. There’s things that they do to try to limit the use of energy. And so from that standpoint we’re trying to limit the use of healthcare. So those are both two very precious resources. So I think there’s things we could learn from them retail obviously and how to brand how to get things out there baking services all that stuff kind of brings things into patients hands our consumers hands, putting things you know in your pocket. I think all those different industries are all things that we can learn from. We never get within healthcare had two or very rarely had to focus much on the consumer aspect of delivery. People came to us because their doctors told them to come to us or people that those doctors because they were a part of the plan and that they were in network versus out of network.
Craig Richardvi: 25:02 I don’t have it in network bank. I don’t have a network you know retail shop. I can go to wherever I want and I think now that we will continue to move although I believe at a slower pace than expectations in terms of you know consumer directed and high deductible plans. People do have choices to go in and out of network for the best value of their dollar that’s coming out of their wallet. So from that standpoint I think there are all those different sectors you got to learn from I dont think there’s any specific one that would lead. All of them, I do believe they all have advantages where they move ahead and that’s where I think when it looks like the Charlottes CIO Association you know when we started coming together half a dozen years ago or so more informally what we realized was 80 to 85 percent of all the work that we do was the same. There’s a there’s very few that actually the things that we perform as a CIO that actually was different in a bank versus a energy sector versus the healthcare sector. So once we found that you know we’re not that quote unquote special that we always thought it was really great to be able to share things back and forth and to use some of the techniques that they’ve used and bring that on to you know the healthcare industry.
Bill Russell: 26:14 And that’s great advice. So if you’re a health care It person, develop those relationships outside the industry and you know you might learn some things and they might say she thinks it’s great to have those relationships.
Bill Russell: 26:28 I really appreciate Craig coming on the show he is so full of energy so full of thought and ideas. He and I probably could have talked for about three or four hours. So you know again in that category of just really smart people who are doing some really cool things in health care. I think one of the brightest young CEOs in the industry is Chad Brisendine out at St. Luke’s University Health System in my parents home town of Bethlehem Pennsylvania. I got a chance to work with Chad a bunch. Over the past year and he came on the show and we talked about the the consumer facing application that he just rolled out. I’m trying to I’m trying to shed myself of the word portal moving forward. So it really was a consumer facing app what they had done was they use Epic’s app orchard and they actually designed the entire experience based on what the consumers were asking for. And he shared some of that insight on this Clip.
Bill Russell: 27:30 So let’s talk about your mobile and web consumer experience. You’re an epic shop. You chose to build your experience on top of the epic APIs. Give us an idea of what that experience has been like a lot of people just go the my chart route. Here’s my chart and away we go. But you really broke it down into its components and built on top of that API set. How’s your experience been with that and then what was your thought process behind not using the out of the box and going with a more customized experience for your for your consumers.
Chad Brisendine: 28:06 So I think the first thing that we wanted to do is really find out what our customers needed. Right. So we we leverage customer focus groups to talk to them about what would really help them the most and they’re actually part of our organization process so we’re running another one fairly soon on our backlog requests and new ideas and those things may be in the top line of things that are capable of epic or not capable of epic right. But it’s really making sure that we have what our customers want and showing them what’s possible. So I’d say that’s that’s first and foremost to us. So being able to prioritize as second you know when I think about epic and I think about the ecosystem of software I think you have to split things into front end and back ends. Right. You have many things that are back end and you have you know you want to keep the front end single pane of glass. And I think why a lot of folks have gone to a single electronic medical records is because physicians and staff and everyone don’t want to be working in two three four systems. So you don’t want the same experience for your customers. So how do you create that that single pane of glass experience. And that’s by leveraging multiple products. So you know epic doesn’t have the capability to do price transparency epic doesn’t have the capability to check you into an urgent care. That’s not prescheduled. It doesn’t have the capability to. It’s coming out with the next release but geo location. So what what we’re doing is basically leveraging the best of what epic has to offer when they have to offer it and when they don’t have it to offer and our customers want it ahead of time leveraging third party vendors like American well or you know find a docker or whatever those capabilities are. Those are all the back end technologies but we’re really controlling that front end UX UI and to make that experience the most optimal and really leveraging our customers to help us get feedback on on it to make sure that it is the most optimal.
Bill Russell: 30:01 Now I can hear some other CIO saying well don’t you have a team of 100 developers of that kind of stuff. And now I know the answer to this but I’m just going ask it how big is your development team.
Chad Brisendine: 30:14 Three people. Yeah. And some partners and some partners. But you know we haven’t spent 40 million dollars on this. And I won’t tell you how much we spent but it’s a lot cheaper than what people think. And the reason is we’re not building back end technology. We’re building front end technology and that’s that’s really I think smart right. We’re leveraging back end where possible and in creating the right if we have the right architecture which is a challenge right then then we can do this. And I think that’s you know this bill in your working environment that the health care has gone a long way related to integration in our operability and architecture and you know it will evolve. But it’s it’s a very complex at this stage
Bill Russell: 30:59 yeah you know great insight consumer focus but you know there were so much happening on the innovation front and I’m actually going to share two clips only from one person because she has been gracious she has been on the show the should twice and that Sarah Richardson and she also has had me on her podcast the Socal HIMMs podcast and if you haven’t pick that up there’s a lot of great guests on that and I’m gonna share two things because I happen to have her on the show at a time where Apple was announcing some some of their moves this past year. And so the first clip is on you know can Apple really give health care the easy button which I thought was an interesting concept which is really what people are hoping for from Apple and Google but mostly from Apple. Is can they make health care. Can they take the friction out of health care. Can they make it easier. And then the second clip and I’ll just roll right into it is. hyper consumerism. I was asking her what her priorities are and this is one of the top priorities for her. So here’s two clips from Sarah Richardson.
Bill Ruseel: 32:07 I guess my question to you is are we finally at the starting line is that this Apple announcement going from 13 to 39. Are we finally at the starting line for this consumer revolution within health care. Are we are we still being a little overly optimistic.
Sarah Richardso: 32:22 Anything Apple does has hype. I mean come on that’s what they’re known for. But I think about we have, one of the things I love about Apple is they talk about it needs to be simple needs to be elegant and needs to be easy. You think about how they historically always design their products. And I laugh because when we we’re at my house we’re a house divided it’s either an android house or an Apple house. And it’s this constant battle. And yet I can’t imagine my life without my Apple products and it’s not because I’m an evangelist for Apple it’s that everything I do revolves around my apple products my mac book. My iPpad. My iPhone. I’d be more upset if I could fly my iPad than like my shoes in the morning because I lived my entire life on that device because in fact thats how we’re communicating right now
Bill Russell: 33:07 and you do that because they’re easy, Are they going to be able to take that easy the easy button and move it into health care. I guess that’s the question
Sarah Richardso: 33:15 they will so long as Apple’s able to continue to push and overhype again interoperability in this thing the other thing. When you look at your, if you go into your Apple phone and you go to Health kit your informations already there it’s already telling you the things that you’re doing. So long as the EMR vendors long as the third party applications that allow themselves to connect into health kit like even today’s vitality at work and other things they’re all connected to health kit already So as long as we continue to make sharing that information easy then yeah I mean at the end of the day Apple already has all of our information. What’s the difference if they also have our health information now and some like that information make it easier to share. It’ll be interesting how they get that information back out of healthkit. So if I go see you as the patient and your specialist that has no history with me and all my information is on my phone. We have to make it easy and at my discretion to give you the information in my phone to you if you’re somehow not connected into the Apple ecosystem yet.
Bill Russell: 34:11 last question I want to ask you is which one area do you think CIOs need to be really focused in on right now
Sarah Richardso: 34:19 patient experience. Okay well hyper consumerism is where I’d focus it more because patient experience to me is a banner and a campaign. And a this and a that. No, hyper consumerism driving everything to a digital experience because if we don’t make it easy for patients like ourselves to use healthcare on our smart devices then people like I should say people companies like Apple are starting to do it for us right.
Bill Russell: 34:47 And yeah that’s going to sound like a little bit of commercials so I won’t mention my company again. But essentially what we talk to people about is you know actually being intentional about the experience you want your consumers to have instead of just allow it to happen and going oh well you know that’s just their experience. But really identifying those points those points of meaning where people go Hey I got a call back from my primary care physician the next day. And that makes all the difference in the world. They become loyal to that company and loyal to that organization and that primary care physician for life just because they know that’s my parents story they got a phone call the next day. She did not have to call them but she wanted to follow up and they’re like. And she did. She actually moved from one health system to another and they went from one health system to another. To follow her so.
Bill Russell: 35:36 Great insights from Sarah and always well-informed guest and she was on one of the one of the shows that we did at one of the conferences she was one of the people I interviewed and gave me some just wonderful insights on culture and on developing a good culture within health I.T.. So let’s keep moving forward. DAVID Munch joined us. I have so many great quotes from David Munch and to be honest with you we’re just short on time I chose one of the shorter ones but the gist that if you ever had a chance to talk to him just grab him and ask him whatever questions you have he’s so approachable. And this I was asking him about the health I.T. talent shortage and how you address it. And he gave us a great simple little answer on this. And I think there’s a lot of wisdom in.
Bill Russell: 36:27 Give us some of the other strategies that CEOs can employ to find the best talent.
David Munch: 36:32 Really it’s the best approach that I’ve used that worked well was the summer intern activity. We used to beg borrow and steal to get into the budget enough money to do things. But you can take students from anywhere and everywhere and to let you know the only time that we brought on a student to stay with us was when he wanted to move back to be close to our parents. But we used to get five to eight people every summer and grow our own. And the fact is the enthusiasm is really a great quality to find in any employee and these people would start at the lowest level to get a good understanding. We put them at the helpdesk. That would give them exposure and a good test of patience. But it would also allow them to speak a diversity of needs.
Bill Russell: 37:28 Fantastic. So you know hopefully you get a lot of really good ideas and thoughts from this.
Bill Russell: 37:36 I really enjoy the conversations I have with the CIOs some of the you know here’s some of the more pragmatic things that we’ve talked about here. Tressa springman and I talked about what healthsystem CIOs want from vendors and you know this video actually ended up getting a lot of hits on social media. I hope it was the vendors actually hitting it so that they can value our time a little bit better than they have in the past. So here’s Tressa Springman and I talking about what vendors. what CIOs want from vendors.
Bill Russell: 38:09 What’s one thing you would say to vendors trying to work with a health system. You know I got that e-mail once that dear whatever it wasn’t even my name. You know we have the greatest thing since sliced bread. You need this thing. But I get this question a lot from vendors as you know. What’s what’s the what’s the approach that resonates with the CIO.
Tressa Springma: 39:08 Well with a name like Tressa Nine times out of 10 they spell it wrong anyway. So thank you for the letter, but that’s not me. You know Bill I think you can relate to this and I can too. I’ve been a CIO now for over 20 years. A few different institutions organizations. That’s not where I’ve always been. You know we have a passion for supporting health care as an industry. You know as a commitment to doing a better job here in the U.S. with Health Quality and Health Equality and a more economic Bounty tothe quality of care and I’m most appreciative when vendors or other people in this ecosystem that we’re in approach us as peers and professionals. I think as you know we have worn different badges and sat in different seats and I think if there’s a participation in the dialogue about how we can solve a problem. There’s a higher probability that when we get down to the investments and tools that we’re taking advantage of the players in the market who we really don;t understand. So you know that may be kind of a philosophical comment, but I gotta be honest, maybe it’s a bit arrogant. I pride myself on knowing the ten big things I need to solve in the coming 3 months 6 months 9 months. And I go chase them down. So when I know I need it I’m calling them so just having a presence and recognizing that I’d rather talk about a problem that we’re trying to solve together than any specific method of solving it usually takes care of itself from a product perspective.
Bill Russell: 40:22 Yeah similarly I say three things to them I say you know, know my business so I don’t want to keep educating you on my business. The second thing is don’t try to get me through email. If you can’t get to me through another person you’re probably not going to get the sale anyway. So either through a peer telling me hey you should talk to this person or somebody within our system saying you talk to this person. So that’s the second thing I would say to people. And the third is a traditional sales rep doesn’t cut it anymore. When I talk to the sales rep I want to be strategizing. I want them to know their product backwards and forwards. I don’t want to you know have a go between. Oh let me bring in this person, let me bring in this person. I want them to at least have a base level of knowledge that that adds value to our time is valuable. It’s the most valuable thing which is why I appreciate you.
Bill Russell: 41:07 Here’s a little bit more pragmatism. We had had Patrick Anderson who was the CIO of Hoag Hospital at the time. He’s now the CIO at City of Hope in L.A. County and he he gave us the CIO playbook and his principle number one was run I.T. as a team.
Bill Russell: 41:26 And here he share some of those insights you have shared with me your CIO playbook. So you’ve gone into new gone into health systems on several occasions inherited it shops and you have some principles here that you go by. So I’m going to share some of that as we go through and just ask questions. So the first principle is you run I.T. as a leadership team the team runs I.T.. Tell us about that. Tell us what that looks like.
Patrick Anderso: 41:54 Sure. You know years ago I couldn’t keep up Bill, my time was was just I was buried. I was working every day every night every weekend and I thought, gosh am I delegating enough do I have enough leadership resources in the organization to handle the demand and to support the organization and all institutes and all the activities appropriately so that. So I really started working on developing the leadership team principle where all of the leaders know everything that’s going on in it and we solve our issues together and we help each other. So bringing the leadership team together huddling multiple times during the week to to make sure that we’re staying on track and then setting the pace of monitoring all of the critical success factors across the I.T. organization with a rigor is really the key. And well what was the real benefit of this is everybody is well informed everybody is accountable to to meet their service levels and their dashboard deliverables. And then it provides bandwidth provides bandwidth for me and it provide bandwidth for leadership. So we have a we have a regiment and a rigor that we go to
Bill Russell: 43:19 yet just a few weeks back we had Chani Cordero Lieutenant Colonel Chani Cordero from the Darnell Army Medical Center on the show and she began with such a practical leader full of great insights and wisdom and she shared on what it takes to be an engaged leader next post I thought was interesting so trust but verify.
Bill Russell: 43:45 As a leader we have to trust our staff, but we also have to be involved enough to really verify what they’re telling us. And you talk about a situation where you’re trying to deploy something and turned out there was a failure in communication between the team on the system issue. And you say you know trust but verify. The point isn’t to place blame anywhere but to ensure that the team has the resources they need. And then you ask the question what are some of the leadership accountability techniques that you use so when you when you say trust them trust but verify.
Bill Russell: 44:20 How do you verify. I mean how are you. How would you go about verifying I guess.
Chani Cordero: 44:27 Yeah. So that’s a very good question and what I’ve kind of learned is that I do the same so I have a project meeting. And right now I’m actually having to do a little bit more frequently than I like. We’re doing it weekly because. Because I feel that we should revamp our project meaning.
Chani Cordero: 44:49 And so I just like you know you always have some very little surface level understanding, a surface level. You know idea of what’s going on wiht that particular projects and because of that sometimes when projects are maybe not on schedule or maybe not a priority for that project manager or for that department chair their answers are very general. And I think maybe like maybe from teaching my BS factor is really high and is really sensitive. And so I’ll start rapidly firing questions because it’s sometimes you can see almost like a dying fish in the water right. You know and I’m the shark coming in you know like I can see when someone is not being quite honest but I try to create an atmosphere though that that’s not, I don’t want to push blame. You know you said hey I didn’t have time to look into this or I don’t have the resources, but I didn’t ask you because it’s low priority I can handle that. What I can’t handle though is maybe just blowing it off. Or you’re having integrity issues and so when we’re having these project meetings and I’m answering the questions. You know you can say hey you know this is the, well were having an issue with the vendor. Oh ok well then that maybe something on my level that you shouldn’t be handling that let me call the vendor. Oh wait wait wait wait wait wait. Well actually we haven’t scheduled a meeting with the vendor yet.
Chani Cordero: 46:29 Oh OK. So that’s kind of what I mean is they you know sometimes when someone’s not telling you something right then your Spidey sense is kind you know go up in the air and you know it’s not right. And so just asking those questions that they know that you know I trust you that you do your job, but I also need you to know that I’m engaged and I’m an engaged leader.
Bill Russell: 46:54 I think I’ve said great insights about ten times.
Bill Russell: 46:58 I’ll try not to say it anymore but I’mm gonna close out the show with with two clips that are pretty short and I thought they were fantastic. One was Jamie Nelson and who spoke earlier and she is here giving encouraging women to take more career risks based on an article that she wrote.
Bill Russell: 47:19 Actually I find this part to be interesting. You say women need to take more risks and the how you highlight this as you say. Almost. You talk about that men are willing to jump into the next role even though they know they’re not qualified for it but they’ll figure it out as they go whereas women are more pragmatic and they say well, no. I’m not ready for that role yet and they try to get ready for that role before they step into it. So what are you encouraging women to do here in terms of taking risks.
Jamie Nelson: 47:51 You know when when women come to talk to me I tell them don’t don’t check off all 10 boxes if you can check off three or four of your qualifications for that next role. Go ahead try for it. Because we really we hold ourselves back in this way. And I was listening to a radio broadcast this morning when I was walking my dogs and they were talking about how this happens from when girls were little girls are socialized. Be careful don’t hurt yourself. Don’t you know don’t run and when you have boys say go have fun. Play jump off the tree branch. So that’s, it starts when we’re very young. So that’s how it is. And we have to recognize that say OK it’s alright to take these risks. So I always encourage women, a few boxes is good you know try. The worst that could happen is you fail and then you figure something else out. That’s how you grow.
Bill Russell: 48:42 Well yeah if you haven’t had a chance to listen to that episode with Jamie she wrote an article on women in health care and it was phenomenal and we were sort of working off of that. So would love to share five more clips out of that. But in the interest of time not gonna be able to do that. So we’re getting to the end here.
Bill Russell: 49:01 So here’s the last last video clip. It’s David Baker CIO of Pacific Dental the short story on David is David worked for me at work for me at St. Joe’s and has progressed his career from consulting all the way up to CIO.
Bill Russell: 49:18 And this is mostly me talking but it’s mostly sharing his story because he really has lived the dream he has gone from a pretty low level within the organization all the way up to CIO and he is doing a phenomenal job for this billion dollar dental service organization. So here’s a little clip from the episode I did with David Baker a close friend and someone who had the opportunity to mentor the returning guest David Baker.
Bill Russell: 49:49 Now a CIO but I knew you when you were just. Actually I knew you when you were a consult. Yes. So you went consultant director V.P.. And then when you left St. Joe’s you became CIO
David Baker: 50:00 SVP and CIO.
Bill Russell: 50:01 That’s like living the dream. I mean what do you attribute that to
David Baker: 50:05 great solid mentors. Who scrutinize every every molecule of my work.
Bill Russell: 50:12 I was I was a little I was a little tough on you.
Bill Russell: 50:16 But I’ll tell you actually I’ve I’ve told this story a couple of times the thing that impressed me. You’re a consultant I get named CIO. You’re a consultant and you’re like trying to get on my calendar. You’re like feisty to get on my counter. You come into my office and you’re like. What’s the biggest problem you have. I guess the fact that, I think the actual problem was the clinicians hated I.T.. Right. And you know at a certain point that’s unsustainable. You can’t do that. I’m like well the clinicians hate it, you’re like I can solve that problem. And you started on that path and it started with easy pass then it went to 20 or 60 back. I mean you just did all sorts of things around the experience around the internal users experience with I.T.. It took us from a very low ranking to a very high ranking with personnel. And when people ask me you know why how did David get from here to there. I say.
Bill Russell: 51:12 Anybody who walks into your office and says Give me your hardest problem I’ll figure out a way to solve it. That person is going to get your attention especially if they start solving the problem. I always you know I use that story to tell people take a risk. Figure out what the hardest problem is and see if you can solve it.
Bill Russell: 51:31 All right so that’s that’s it for the year end review from the CIOs. And I literally could have put another hundred videos in here. There was so much great wisdom from the CIOS.
Bill Russell: 51:42 I hope you enjoyed it. This is the last year in review episode before the top 10 episode which will be coming out the Friday, probably January 4th 3rd 4th I don’t know what day that Friday is but hopefully you enjoy it. And. I’ve just had a blast. I really want to thank the CIOs for coming on the show and really making it what it is. I think it is. I’m learning a ton from every every CIO that we have on the show and I hope you’re learning a ton as well. You could follow the show @thisweekinhealthIT.dot com you could take the survey at thisweekinhealthIT.dot com. Help us to shape the show in the future. We really do want your feedback. Sponsored by health lyrics ther’s also on the Health Lyrics site. We also have the shows hosted over there as well with some of my articles so you can follow us in both places and take survey in both places that would be great if you want to see some of the videos thisweekinhealthIT.dot com/video we’ll take you to the YouTube channel.
Bill Russell: 52:42 And I think that’s it. That’s all the details. So please come back every Friday for more news information in emerging thought with leaders from across the industry. That’s all for now.